The Money Dilemma
This is probably a very familiar scenario for people who go and visit a girl in the Philippines. I'm posting this so others can be better prepared.
As you know, we're (foreigners) all rich. The Filippinos know this too and they use it to their advantage.
I met a girl there (from the Internet) and we went out. It was nice. We went out the next day and I met her family. We went for lunch and had a nice meal. At the end of the meal the bill naturally came to me. No one else made any attempt to pay or offer to contribute to the bill. It was just expected. That really annoys me.
What made it worse was that after we sat down for lunch other members of the family appeared and sat down, some (the younger ones) not even saying hello to me.
After lunch we all went out and went on our way. No one, and I mean NO ONE, even said "thanks". Amazing. It was just expected that the rich foreigner would pay the bill for all these people eating.
Don't get me wrong, they were lovely people and very good to me but that ruined it for me. When we got back to the hotel my girl suggested we go out for dinner later with her sister. I said No, I wasn't hungry. What I really wanted to say was that I was sick of buying food for her freeloading family....but that would have been rude of me.
It wasn't an isolated incident either. I've met other girls there who like to bring their friend(s) along and I get to buy all the drinks/food. Those girls don't get a second chance with me either.
So, what's the correct etiquette for dealing with situations like this?
Delicious
Digg
StumbleUpon
Propeller
Reddit
Newsvine
Furl
Facebook
Google
Yahoo
Technorati
Icerocket
I Hear You!
I think the Santa Clause phenomenon, as I heard it called before, is related to several aspects of the inter-racial, cross-class relationship. Most of us from the "enlightened" places for the most part see one another as people first, who happen to be of such and such a culture second. Whereas many people who have a different background, have a stronger identification with their tribe, and secondarily with the rest of humanity.
Another aspect is that many people here are essentially beggars, and they're happy to have you buy them a meal, or to buy them meals indefinitely. They don't care whether you're a foreigner or a neighbor or uncle, whatever. The local people who are rich - or even who have a meager-paying job - have to deal with this all the time: if they aren't firm with self-protecting what is in their wallet, they'll be penniless in no time.
As for the lack of verbal appreciation, I have gotten worked up about that quite a few times myself. My wife is getting better about saying thank you and even insisting her family say thank you if we give them something - but it took my repeated insistence upon it to make that happen, and so I've also had to some extent to try to let go of my expectation of it. I can't say I've got any of these things solved or resolved or anything, because a hair short of two years into our marriage we still confront them daily - especially when we're around other local people - which is one of the main reasons I had to fire each of the helpers we tried to employ - just a bad influence.
Because it's "against the rules" to be clear about one's boundaries, desires, and expectations in a "modern relationship" sense, most Westerners I think deal with this by having a strict budget, and whether they lie about it or are really limited to X dollars per day/week/etc, they stick to it strictly and it's always the "end of the week, etc" and there's "just 200 pesos left for lunch". Those who don't figure out how to set boundaries, obviously can't last because the expenses keep escalating and even the richest one goes broke.
For my part, and on my budget, I'm ok with treating people a little - a toothbrush or sandals for my wife's sister or brother, ample food from cheap eateries for her immediate family when they visit occasionally. I am fairly firm that my generosity does not extend beyond minor items and that it does not extend to extended family.
I remember before I met my wife that I quickly decided to be firm when meeting someone for the first time - I told them in advance that they could at most bring one friend or family member.
I suspect that with enough patience of meeting enough people, a person would meet a filipina who is appreciative, if that is a top criteria. Although I really don't know for sure.
There really IS such a thing as a free meal
Thanks for the insights.
I'm all for people buying me a meal, that's great but what about the expectation part? They just expected me to pay. That's just rude in my book. No one else offered; in fact, even the waiter came straight to me with the bill even though I didn't actually do any of the ordering.
Next time I think I'd throw P300 on the table and say "that's my share". How do you think that would go down? LOL
As for saying Thank You, I didn't think that was a cultural issue, I thought good manners were commonplace across cultural boundaries.
I don't know how familiar you
I don't know how familiar you are with non-western customs, but it is generally expected that the higher status person pick up the check for everyone in many asian countries.
Was the total cost under $40?
>I don't know how familiar
>I don't know how familiar you are with non-western customs,
I've lived and worked in Asia for over 20 years so I'm fairly familiar.
>but it is generally expected that the higher status person pick up the check for everyone in many asian countries.
Yes, I've seen this but it doesn't make it right. I think the point of my initial post was to question these "expectations" and examine the inherent rudeness of this. I know it's dangerous to compare Asian standards with Western standards but given that most of us on this site are Westerners I thought I'd post the entry as a discussion point.
>Was the total cost under $40?
Irrelevant really. Doesn't matter if it was $4, $40 or $400 - the fact that it was expected and that no one said thanks was really what I was writing about.
paying for lunch in the Philippines
i am a filipino. what should have been done prior to the invitation was ask around or maybe from the internet what is the culture or expectations when it comes to inviting a girl or any Filipino friend/s. not just one source.. but from several sources - both from the locals and from your friends who had been in the Philippines.
when we invite someone.. let's say not necessarily a boyfriend or girlfriend, but also a co-Filipino, even with my close friends as a matter of fact, it is always understood that the one who is inviting is paying. it is a positive way of saying, ok i'm going to treat you today. it's on me.. for a reason.- maybe a birthday treat, or something to celebrate about. it is always almost like a pride to us that we can treat our friends without having to obligate anyone. it is the same both for the rich and the poor Filipinos, if i may say.
if you are close friends, then it is not an invitation. it is going to be an agreement among us that we will share. we do that only when we are already acquainted with each other. otherwise, if you are inviting me for lunch and we are not close, i will have to ask why.. or sense that you are interested in me. when we are already friends and you invite me, i will go out with you, and already at the table i will say, ok i will pay for the drinks. or i like to add some dessert; would you want some? i will pay for this. that's how it work.s
your treating the family for lunch- free on their part is understood as, especially in the first few dates- that you are wooing the girl, you can afford to marry her (that advance), and it is your generosity and interest to know them better is the thing moves you to treat them.
the ingratitude of the family members. apologies for that. those in the province are usually not as straightforward and vocal as you can expect them to be. the "yes" can mean "no". the "no" can mean "not totally no". in time as the family get to know you better, they will respond by showing you in some special ways how much they appreciate your good gesture towards them. it was not rudeness.. just a need for you to allow some time for them to also know you. besides, you are wooing the girl. should they be thankful that you are going to court her?
up to now, even in the jeepneys when i receive the coins passed to me from a passenger to the driver, usually the passenger does not thank me. i have made it a point to demonstrate appreciation by ALWAYS thanking the person passing my fare to the driver. i always think that it is already an understanding that when i'm in the jeep, there's no other way for the passengers to deliver the payment to the driver but by passing the payment through the other passengers.
hope this brings some light on the ways of the Filipinos that are not in the books.
money delimna
What's the status of your family's girlfriend? You can tell if they can afford to pay the meals? Are you the one who invited them for lunch? In that case, don't complain if you pay the bills. Just be open to talk about this thing to your girlfriend and let her know. In western countries, if you go on date it's common for 50-50 share in paying the bills. Not here in Philippines, if you ask someone on a date, you pay the bills! Unless you make it clear that's it's 50-50 share.
Very Interesting about the filippino Culture
I had a school teacher that told me that he travel most of the 3rd world countries and the only 2 countries he didnt go to was the filippines and India because they were very poor countries.After reading the comment of the of the filippino culture I will redirect my plans to other countries instead them two.
True Intention
After all that I hope you got what you really looking for...(wink, wink)